What waa I thinking

[plainpainter]

Scott - I sell either service - it's what the customer wants. I won't get involved in expensive paint stripping especially on pressure treated. They either will have it redone the way it is - or I can build them a new deck. Paying for expensive paint stripping isn't cost effective considering the results - for slightly more money and with far better results - I'll rebuild.

When it comes to house painting - I don't even get involved in 'peelers' anymore. My competition won over me on this really big job 4 years ago - he was half my price. But the water ingress from soffit/wood gutter area was so great - 50% of the paint is now gone. So even though I would have done a better job, even my work would look like crap now. And what the homeowner is now doing, is the sensible thing - residing, putting down new house warp and Benjamin Obdyke material for funneling out moisture.

putting down latex solid stain on top of good prep.....$1,200

restoring deck thoroughly with expensive $70/gallon paint stripper - drum sanding down decks and re-radiusing in between boards and then finally staining...........$4,800

Building deck out of new wood.....$5,400

Scott which option would you pick if you were willing to spend the money?There is only $600 difference between removing paint and being left with 15 year old wood vs. having a new deck.

[topcoat]

Dan

Depends on the wood. If its old pt, I will trash it any day of the week. If its restorable cedar, ipe, garrapa, mahogany, cyprus, I will restore it, if for no other reason than not wanting to waste. I do see your point though. Consumers are so conditioned now to everything being disposable (appliances, electronics, cars) that it is nice that we often deal with salvagable organic product. I would much rather sell $4000 in labor than $4000 in lumber ultimately.

Also, I hear you on the getting beat by 50% on peelers. Not sure if you read the July APC but theres an article in there all about getting beat by 50%. I hate to throw the baby out with the bath water and say ok I'm not bidding that type of work anymore. We cant cut off our noses.

[Mathew Johnson]

I agree Scott, we will bid on most anything... he question is how much the customer is willing to spend. The caveat to peelers and such it to make sure the customer is well informed about the issues and final project results in addition to what it may look like in 1-3-5 years.

We get pretty creative with out contracts spelling out the downside to the customer's stain choice or customers project request that will not provide optimal outcomes.

[plainpainter]

Dan

Depends on the wood. If its old pt, I will trash it any day of the week. If its restorable cedar, ipe, garrapa, mahogany, cyprus, I will restore it, if for no other reason than not wanting to waste. I do see your point though. Consumers are so conditioned now to everything being disposable (appliances, electronics, cars) that it is nice that we often deal with salvagable organic product. I would much rather sell $4000 in labor than $4000 in lumber ultimately.

Exactly - why try and pitch expensive restoration for pressure treated?
Trust me on the paint stripping - the materials cost for a paint stripper that you don't mind exposing your workers to will be $$$$! I'd say dollar for dollar you can cover 50%-70% of the area in new wood of what one gallon of $70 stripper will cover. And your man-hours for putting a new deck down will be way way less - and you can charge much more per man-hour.

Also, I hear you on the getting beat by 50% on peelers. Not sure if you read the July APC but theres an article in there all about getting beat by 50%. I hate to throw the baby out with the bath water and say ok I'm not bidding that type of work anymore. We cant cut off our noses.

I don't know what APC is? The problem I am seeing Scott - is the increasing amount of ignorance among homeowners now since the early 90's. At least back then homeowners knew a painting estimate from College painters was a joke and figured it would look good for a couple of years until they could afford a professional. Now what I am seeing is that it's socially acceptable to get your house painted from the CertaPro's of the world. People now question my estimate and bring these hacks up in conversation as if they are a viable alternative! I see these guys churn work from start to finish in a 3-4 day 'window' - which I would have in the past dedicated a month for. I see painters that don't pressure wash anymore. Most guys aren't caulking anything - latex primers. And the hack jobs keep piling up and up.

I mean how do you tell a homeowner that the last painter painted over their new clapboard siding and didn't prime before hand - and that there is nothing that be done about the 'bubbling' because all the adhesion is gone? The hack work is getting greater and greater - and homowners want it cheaper and cheaper.

As to the 'peelers' I have found I can get the same size house for the same money that is new. So I have determined that folks aren't spending for prep - or at least see no value in it. Which is sad - because I had 125 man-hours in prep alone on my last home. As well folks want longer and longer and more unreasonable warranties. There are too many issues with older homes - flashing, leaky roofs, improper breathing - to even begin offering warranties. And in order to combat this increasing tide - I did more and more prep work - pressure washing more, scraping twice, grinding, sanding - all in an effort to combat mother nature and unrealistic expectations of job life. {Heck my neighbor was whining the other day about how a neighbor's house was litteraly taken down to bare wood - yet it already needs another paint job! In reality it wasn't all taken down, just a really good scrap job - and it's been 9 years, what more could you ask?}

In the end I found - it was easier to take off the old siding - put up proper ventilation, install factory primed siding, let it weather, reprime, caulk and paint. And I could offer a warranty and get more money. And so now when folks have really bad 'peelers' and go with the competition - they'll remember my suggestion 4 years later and just go with new siding. I just found the demographic of very badly peeling homes to not make good business sense - at least not in these economic times. Heck even Ken questioned my last deck restoration as whether or not it made financial sense - and I made multiples the money per man-hour than when I use to do take on 'peelers' - the best money I ever made was a company rate of $24/man-hour, I wager if I was a better manager and fired guys and really got on them to perform that could have been perhaps $30/hr. And I was priced routinely 35-65% more than my competition. That's why I don't get involved with 'peelers' anymore.

[topcoat]

I think the bottom line is to price them the way you have to price them and if you get them you get them. We have done maybe 2 peelers in the last 4-5 years and I am fine with that. You gotta have plenty of other options though whenever you eliminate yourself from a large market segment, which peelers are. Bottom line, more effective marketing, and more leads. Then you can price those peelers sky high and if you get them, you know you can deliver a profitable and good result.

[plainpainter]

Mathew Johnson told me how he preps a home - to me it seems like the perfect balance between expediency, profitability, and sensible job life. I tried it on some bubbling paint on cement foundation and liked the results.

Personally not to enthused anymore to chase 'peelers' anymore. I would rather stay small and not worry about keeping a crew employed. For what I do now - having my nephew as a helper has been perfect. I can really bang out the work now and make triple the money than when I had 5 guys under me. I figure the average 'peeler' in New England is really a 17-27k job with all lead epa laws on the books now.