Should Filters be tested to set universal standards ?

[Jim@GarageCleaning]

Just a note; the reason why I talk about this EPA talk is because I live it. People who talk with me or have met me know that I would never turn someone in for writing something on the boards. All I am trying to do is increase the awareness of what is happening here in California.

As Ron has said so many times over the past months, Arizona is soooooo much more restrictive than California.

If you read my posts and say, boy thats just California, think again. For some in other parts of the country, it may take 10 years or more before it comes to your neck of the woods.... but it is coming.

As Ron has mentioned several times, I do work with the environmental agencies almost every week. I have to.... its my job. If I did sidewalks, I would probable never have the need to talk with them. However that is not the case. I do parking structures, with that said, the agencies have to show up and inspect our filter and run off during the job site. They show up at all times during the job.

Do I have a personal relationship with them, no. Do they come to my home, NO. Do they have my cell number YES and thats where it stops.

The posts I write is for your benefit and the industries. I make nothing by informing you of whats around the corner. I am not here to say yours is better than thou. Frankly I could care less.

What I am interested in is awareness. With this knowledge MAYBE we all can increase our cents per sq footage. I would love to see all of us making .24 cent a sq ft instead of the 1.3 cents as some charge... wouldn't you?

I prefer knowledge and preparedness over, a surprise and a fine, any day of the week.

Anyway, now you know.

Thats my 2 cents !

[Ron Musgraves]

As Ron has said so many times over the past months, Arizona is soooooo much more restrictive than California.

If you wash a car in the street you are subject to fine. If you drain your pool in the street your subject to a fine.

If you run a garden hose and clean your sidewalk at your home your subject to fine.

Arizona I can not say has more restrictions, because I dont care about learning yours at this point.

CWA is a federal act passed. All States comply unless they have written practices that tell you the requirements. ( period)

Are the BMP's writted unjustly? Yes we have seen this many times and I hope the UAMCC does there part to be responsible for proper BMP's and follow guidelines others have written that are Sensible.
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[Carlos]

If you wash a car in the street you are subject to fine. If you drain your pool in the street your subject to a fine.

If you run a garden hose and clean your sidewalk at your home your subject to fine.

Arizona I can not say has more restrictions, because I dont care about learning yours at this point.

CWA is a federal act passed. All States comply unless they have written practices that tell you the requirements. ( period)

Are the BMP's writted unjustly? Yes we have seen this many times and I hope the UAMCC does there part to be responsible for proper BMP's and follow guidelines others have written that are Sensible.
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This is where I jump in guys. I am asking lets keep this on topic...filters. Jim...with all due respect...lets not bring Ron or AZ in this....this topic has nothing to do with that state in particular. Some of us are aware of the "friction" of late on other BBS.....I don't want it shoveled over here.

Both of you are members of this BBS and both of you are VERY compassionate about your work...so the posturing is understandable to a degree. However, I asked both of you to sustain a level of professionalism that I know both of you can muster up.

Ron..I am right with you regarding the CWA. You know the years and years that we in the industry walked around asking "how come" and "why" relating to this subject. The UAMCC today is in a "watch and observe" mode. We involved ourselves with Charlotte because we were asked to do so. At the end of the day it was the right choice on what we did and I am very pleased of the outcome thus far.

Let's control our passsion on these posts gentleman. And if I haven't mentioned it...I trust that all of you will have a great 4th of July.

[Jim@GarageCleaning]

Thanks Carlos for your imput on the matter.

[Ron Musgraves]

This is where I jump in guys. I am asking lets keep this on topic...filters. Jim...with all due respect...lets not bring Ron or AZ in this....this topic has nothing to do with that state in particular. Some of us are aware of the "friction" of late on other BBS.....I don't want it shoveled over here.

Both of you are members of this BBS and both of you are VERY compassionate about your work...so the posturing is understandable to a degree. However, I asked both of you to sustain a level of professionalism that I know both of you can muster up.

Ron..I am right with you regarding the CWA. You know the years and years that we in the industry walked around asking "how come" and "why" relating to this subject. The UAMCC today is in a "watch and observe" mode. We involved ourselves with Charlotte because we were asked to do so. At the end of the day it was the right choice on what we did and I am very pleased of the outcome thus far.

Let's control our passsion on these posts gentleman. And if I haven't mentioned it...I trust that all of you will have a great 4th of July.

Filters and Calibration of the filter in the equipment will play a part as BMP's get careless.

Jim wants the standards raised, I say lets take it all the way to the top. If the standard pass a certain point I will be for maximum containment and requirements.

The filters of course are the steps twords calibration requirements.

In terms that people understand is the same Laws Weights and measures are under. Its very possible that each state, city or county could regulate the calibration. The filters will determine the requirements and the measure and the standards we should practice.

I was not battering with Jim, he is still learning alot of this and doesnt realise that what he is shooting for will shut him down yet. I will not allow a false BMP to be written any place in the country if i can help it. Its a promise not a threat.


Carlos, NC was fine. I'm not the other people who think the UAMCC should not be involved. The UAMCC should represent us responsibly in any situation around the US.

This very question is and oportunity for the UAMCC to form a EVIRO team that consults outside experts to give advice. ( keep in mind I'm not talking about contract experts or dist experts) I'm talking engineers that have field tested products and can give a bias opionion on the questions asked.

Yes,i have a passion. I have seen contractors loose everything when BMP's are written wrong. I have taken oath to never allow this to happen again if I can.

Filters should have standards, how high? I'm not engineer and dont have the data to tell you. I'm agaist reusable filters, cross contamination if to high. Agaist sand filters also.....disposible is the only way i see practicality.

[Jim@GarageCleaning]

Filters should have standards, how high? I'm not engineer and don't have the data to tell you. I'm against reusable filters, cross contamination if to high. Agaist sand filters also.

I am glad Ron and I agree on this issue.

Look, already most of California and other states tests ALL discharges into the sewer lines for product that may be contaminated or over the safe levels for discharge. ALL sanitation districts require this to protect their treatment plants facilities. THIS IS NOTHING NEW. It is already in affect for the last 22 years or more.

However, what I am concerned about is not the one who passes the test, but the one who is under the impression that his filter is to capacity to do the work. You can get almost any filter to filter 1,000 gallons. We use almost 40,000 gallon +/- a day of the nastiest stuff you have seen...and boy is the order strong near the filter.

What I am trying to get across here is that the filters should say something like this:

Filter A

capacity of 800 gallon per 8 hours of work

Total life expedience before recharging (40 hours)

80% effective for removal of the required chemicals xyz

Meets or exceeds sanitation requirements of CODE A ,B, C. ( The Sanitation Dept determines how restrictive they need the filter to be for their area. )

Cost per gallon filtered ( .16 ) MAX PER GALLON

Estimated Annual costs for maintenance at every six months ( $7,653)


This would take ALL the guess work out of it. You will not rely on a sales person who is trying to make a buck off you or a company that knows their product is not up to your standards needed for the job at hand.

The auto industry dose it for: mileage per gallon, the difference between trucks 1500 and a 6500 Ford. We look at the spec's all the time.However both trucks have wheels, seats, steering wheel and an engine with head/ tail lights. But they are spec for different needs.

Cat equipment dose it for capacity

Construction units dose it for safety issues

Trailer manufactures dose it for both capacity and safety

Oil manufactures dose it so you can buy the right oil for your needs.

This is a way to standardize the filtration units. This is a good thing so that we as an industry do not get Ripped off because we did not understand what proper equipment to buy for the task at hand.

Otherwise your get someone telling you that this Ford Pinto with a HD rear end has the same towing capabilities as a Ford 550 only it is more compact and gets way better gas mileage.

How would you know if there was no standardization and specs on them both?

Right now, that is the way the filtration units are. We simply do not know unless you have 10/20/25 years experience.

I am proposing that my knowledge be shared with all of you. So you will know what I know when shopping for a filter just by looking at a sticker on the unit.

Buy implying this, I an hurting the ones, including me, who is successful in reclamation on a very large scale. Some will not want this information shared and for good reason.... competition.

[Jim@GarageCleaning]

I did the research, if anything, this standardization would raise the asking price for the cleaning of the parking garages throughout the country. It would give us a specialty field unique to the industry. It would stop all of those who think they maybe qualified and later realize they are not when something wrong happens, which only hurts the industry as a whole.

Due to this guys business name which includes the words "Pressure Washing", then that's what people would remember next time. That Pressure washer %^* who screwed up.

That's what hurts all of us.

[Ron Musgraves]

This is where I jump in guys. I am asking lets keep this on topic...filters. Jim...with all due respect...lets not bring Ron or AZ in this....this topic has nothing to do with that state in particular. Some of us are aware of the "friction" of late on other BBS.....I don't want it shoveled over here.

OK...............